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August 10, 2005

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Are we overthinking this a little bit?

Can we resurrect Steve McQueen?

> was how the hell the marriage between Mary Ann (Miranda
> Otto) and Ray Ferrier (Cruise) could ever have happened
> in the first place. That’s far less plausible than a
> mass invasion of insect-lizard aliens driving huge
> tripods around the globe.

I know it is a bit off JBD's main point, but I get annoyed whenever I see this meme pushed. Here's the deal dude: in real life, /opposites/ attract more often than /likes/. Particularly in the late teens/early 20s. Key Clubbers don't always end up attracted to / dating / marrying Key Clubbers; they often end up pursuing someone from the wrong side of the school. And sometimes they get married. Some of those marriages work, and some don't. But the idea that every marriage will be like Ned and Nell Flanders is horse pucky.

Cranky

My 15 year old daughter disliked both movies. She liked WotW until the "boy-fell-out-of-bed-it's-all-just-a-dream" ending; I think the sisterhood books are geared older than the movie because she really hated it, and that's a sign, since early childhood, of a near miss (think 5 year olds making fun of Barney -- they hate him much more than older kids do).

But she's a budding film studies major anyway, and may be a bit too critical. If it's not Philadelphia Story, it's just not good enough.

'Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants" is a much better movie, even though it lacks death rays and large explosions.'

Why did you have to ruin it for me :)

"Once there was Robin Hood. Then Batman came. Then prince John came--he's the king. Then Superman came. Superman battled with Batman and Batman died. Then he came alive again. Superman died. And then Splinter, Raphael, Donatello, and Michelangelo came. Then an Indian came on a horse with a bow and arrow. Then a cowboy came on a horse with a bow and arrow just like the Indian and shot Superman so he wouldn't ever come alive again. And they lived happily ever after. The end."

Now *THAT* is real writing. By gum, Tom Clancy can't hold a candle to it. It's better than Zane Grey. The kid really knows how to structure a narrative.

Didn't "Titanic" already attempt this "combinatory narrative" strategy, with somewhat more satisfactory results? For that matter, what about "Aliens" which very successfully meshed the battle scenes into a storyline about Ripley recovering her lost motherhood in Newt?

There are lots of movies in which the boy scientist and the girl scientist fall in love while saving the day. Tremors is an example.

> was how the hell the marriage between Mary Ann (Miranda
> Otto) and Ray Ferrier (Cruise) could ever have happened


Has Ms. Otto expressed an interest in joining Scientology? Maybe that explains it.

Having just seen 'Stealth' last weekend (*much* better than my expectations, which may be more a commentary on my expectations than how good the movie was), they has a similar grafting.

There is nothing new here, apart from the social science gloss. Consider the intensely homosocial/violent Western or WWII movie genre, with an anomalous fish grafted in so that the girlfriends could tolerate the flick.

WofTW might be a bad example since Spielberg has done this for years and unlikely for any true commercial reasons.

I thought of War of the Worlds from Spielberg's point of view rather than as a Hollywood movie. Say, letting his son grow and and move on, like where Tom Cruise tries to explain to him that their family can't work together if the kid goes off to fight a war and Cruise eventually accepts the fact his son is growing up and thinking for himself and they respect each other in the end - I think Spielberg and his kid's in that situation, possibly. A lot of Spielberg's other movies stem from his personal situations and the family conflicts in War of the Worlds make the most sense when you look at it from the father's point of view rather than the kids. What sort of sacrifices need to be made? How far will you go to take care of your kids? How and when can you let go? I don't see it as Hollywood's attempt to be everything to everyone, this is much more a meditation on fatherhood and raising a son and a daughter who each have different needs and see different conflicts arise from a time of stress.

Why was War of the Worlds remade at all when there is so much great sci-fi begging to be made into a movie?
When a turkey like War of the Worlds (which was a TV movie with a very high FX budget) is made, do the people in charge of it know it is a turkey or are they genuinely surprised?

For you young'uns who haven't seen it yet, the contrast betwen boy plots and girl plots is nicely captured in this Tandem Story ( http://www.netjeff.com/humor/item.cgi?file=CreativeWriting )
"At first, Laurie couldn't decide which kind of tea she wanted...."

This new "combinatory" narrative pattern is a shift. And I do not think it is a successful shift--the attainment of harmonious family relationships is simply grafted on, and does not emerge organically out of the central action of the movie.

A semi-interesting exception to this observation is a movie like Jerry McGuire, where they sacrifice a truly epic scope of the hero's struggle, and gain a plausible take on the family-level interactions.

Hollywood is aware that it has an audience bifurcation problem with movies like "War of the Worlds," and it is trying to figure out how to fix it, but it is failing.

Fascinating. Now I think I understand why I've been watching so more anime and less Hollywood product. The Japanese have their own story-telling problems, but they're different— and for some reason, they don't get up my nose quite so badly.

My wife and I can almost never agree on a Hollywood movie at the theatre anymore. (I've grown more weary of Hollywood than her.) However, there are several fine Japanese television programs and movies that have been quite nicely dubbed into English, and there's often something in them for both of us to enjoy.

Hollywood used to know how to do this, but something happened— probably something in the last few years, but I couldn't say what— and they completely forgot how. I just chalk it up to America losing its competitive advantage is just about every field it has previously dominated. It's like the climate changing. Can't be stopped or even mitigated. Learn to adapt.

I thought the boy's story had merit - it was nicely balanced for one thing. Superman killed Batman and then Batman killed Superman. The Indian had a horse and a bow and arrow and the cowboy got to have a horse and a bow and arrow, too. The story had interesting supporting characters: Prince John and teenage mutant ninja turtles. It also had a clear ending: the cowboy kills Superman once and for all. If both stories were turned into movies, the boy’s would be the clear winner. It got down to essentials and cut out all the peripheral nonsense like dogs and families.

I know it is a bit off JBD's main point, but I get annoyed whenever I see this meme pushed. Here's the deal dude: in real life, /opposites/ attract more often than /likes/. Particularly in the late teens/early 20s.

OK, Cranky O. Here's a more elaborate version of my question about the movie. Tom Cruise works at Port Elizabeth, drives a vintage Mustang, tinkers with engines, and has no food or social amenities in his attached-house digs. Miranda Otto is a Boston Brahmin. Now: exactly where did they meet in their late teens/ early 20s? Tufts?

And while we're on the class-analysis jag, did you catch the movie's suggestion as to how spoiled rich kids like Dakota Fanning (whose mothers eat natural foods and whose stepdads have impressive personal gyms in their basements) can get rid of their annoying neuroses? By having aliens invade and spending more time with their down-to-earth working-class birth fathers!

You imply, Brad, that Hollywood fails with these sorts of movies because, in the end, they suck as family movies. What you leave out is that they also suck as action movies. It's been what, perhaps ten years, perhaps more, since I saw a Hollywood action movie because I am so sick of this cookie-cutter backstory crap. It's not that I am just not interested in whether the cop is struggling with a messy divorce and managed to impress his kid by sacing a bunch of hostages, it is that I am positively HOSTILE to the idea --- I do not want this is my movie, and if some idiot director insists on putting it in there, I will not watch the movie.

It's no coincidence that the only action movie I have seen in ten years is the very non-Hollywood _Hero_ which conspicuously lacked all such lazy elements as backstory and "humanization".

Old story. See, e.g., Owen Wister, The Virginian

So, basically, what you're saying is that mentally and emotionally George W. Bush is still a 4 year old boy ...?

Rudyard Kipling wrote a WWI story "The Janeites" in which a group of artillerymen take refuge from the macho mud and fear and violence of the Western Front in the morally and aesthetically ordered world of Jane Austen. http://whitewolf.newcastle.edu.au/words/authors/K/KiplingRudyard/prose/DebtsandCredits/janeites.html

> OK, Cranky O. Here's a more elaborate version of my
> question about the movie. Tom Cruise works at Port
> Elizabeth, drives a vintage Mustang, tinkers with
> engines, and has no food or social amenities in his
> attached-house digs. Miranda Otto is a Boston Brahmin.
> Now: exactly where did they meet in their late teens/
> early 20s? Tufts?

Um, high school? One similar to the one I attended, where I can point to a dozen or so relationships like this? Community college (before the Cruise character dropped out)? Her first job, where she was working in the shipping company office to pay her way through college [her father not having hit it big yet, or she being independent from her rich parents]? When she was taking an "auto mechanics for girls" class that the Cruise dude was helping out with? At a bar?

Cranky

The story dynamic that concerns me more is that, in Spielberg's movies, society and social arrangements are always hopelessly dysfunctional or ineffectual or plain evil, and can only be overcome by the individual. In WOW, every other adult who is not the hero is hopelessly misguided. Groups are always dangerously crazy. (In WOW, only military personnel, two individual soldiers, ever understand a problem and take effectual action.)

This is not so often true of movies made outside the U.S. I regard Spielberg's movies as a sort of antisocial propaganda.

>The kid really knows how to structure a narrative.

For me it held together much better than "Sahara". A movie which seems to literally pursue me around - movie theater(group decision), two plane flights, hotel room offering - even though from the very first trailer I knew I had no interest in watching it.

John Evans--there's an excellent critique of Spielberg's work (along those same lines) in a book called The Middle Mind. I forget the name of the author.

These boy/girl differences were studied and conceptualized by the psychologist Robert May over 30 years ago. May's work was outside the social psychology mainstream of the time and never received the attention it deserved. Yet you would think that it would at least come up on computer searches when scholars look into the background of what they are studying. For all the rhetoric about "building on the findings of others", the reality seems to be that little serious attention often is paid to what has gone on before. The push to publish doesn't allow the time. So the wheel gets rediscovered, with great hoopla.

"Hollywood is aware that it has an audience bifurcation problem with movies like "War of the Worlds," and it is trying to figure out how to fix it, but it is failing."

Failing? Let's see...

Titanic = Romance + Sinking of World's Largest Metaphor = 1.8B

Star Wars = Family Romance + Lasers = +/- 5B total

Jurassic Park = Family Values + Dinosaurs = 1B

and for that matter this latest Spielberg/Cruise rehash has sold 225 million. Seems to me Hollywood has figured out how to butter both sides pretty well.

Distater movies may unite families a little bit when watching the film.This may also help in building the relationships between them and make them stronger.

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