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January 04, 2006

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Completely off topic, but for those not sitting right next to a news wire...

Ariel Sharon has been taken into surgury, after suffering a cerebral hemorrhage, having suffered what a doctor on the scene described as "massive" bleeding.

The Darbys, like many English capitalists, were Quakers. Is this because they were kept out of the army, the courts, or any profession where they had to swear an oath, and were forced to go into manufacturing, trade and banking, or was there something in Quaker doctrine that lead them to be entrepreneurs?

Similarly, Pennsylvania was the richest American colony by 1776, and Philadelphia next to London was the largest English speaking city in the world. Was this because William Penn give his colony the greatest freedom in the world, and was the first modern real estate promotor to populate his land, because the Quakers were laisse faire capitalists and hardly governed, or because something in Quaker doctrine made them entreprneurs? I don't know where to look for the answers, or perhaps much American economic history remains to be written.
William Rhoads

A series of inventions can lead to major economic growth if the institutional framework is conducive. I wonder if anyone has compared at a micro-level industrial units in U.K. and Continental Europe (say France) at the dawn of industrial revolution. Once similar technology was available to both sets of firms were British firms able to capitalize on their growth opportunities better than their Continental counterparts?


William, the Quakers also had their own schools which neglected greek amd latin for maths and physics and chemistry.

It is of interest to me that they were still called "sleepers", in my youth.

For the influence of Quaker culture, a general source is "Albion's Seed" by David Hackett Fisher. The Quakers were associated with Northen England and the Puritans with East Anglia. The culture of both groups was egalitarian and more hospitable to large settlements, economic specialization and trade.

I'm descended from the other two groups, Border Scots and Gentry, so I know more about why they were culturally incompetent to foster a manufacturing economy. The Virginia ideal was to own your own plantation with your own carpenters, shoe-makers etc. There were few large settlements. There wasn't enough currency to support a lot of trade, so people ran up debts that were rolled over year after year. The main path to wealth for ambitious young men was growing tobacco, or perhaps the law (both activities being a good basis for land speculation). They made some worthwhile contributions in the realm of political ideas, but came up with no significant inventions or commercial innovations that I'm aware of.

In passing, I note that the women of the gentry were intelligent and sometimes outspoken, but I don't think there's an example of correspondence from the period in which one of them produced anything like Mrs. Darby's letter for vigor, original opinion and expository organization.

On Quakers and industry -- many of the major confectionery firms were Quaker in origin: Rowntrees and Terrys (both of York) at least, and maybe Cadbury as well. No idea why.

One suggestion I have seen regarding their commercial success is that at that point the ability to make reliable verbal arrangements with each other was easier for groups with a high trust level, and the Quakers had that.

Many early chocolate makers were Quaker families for a reason at odds with the idea of the market economy. As part of a humanitarian effort, they co-operated in introducing cocoa int West Africa as an alternative cash crop to slaves, and then they worked hard to market it. The fact that it turned out commercially profitable was serendipitous.

Much of the fuel for early mine pumping engines was essentially free; there was a fair amount of byproduct scrap coal that couldn't be shifted profitably but could be burned locally.

It wasn't necessary to set up quasi-money, though it was convenient; this was before the days of the Truck Acts, so it was still practical to pay workers in truck whenever there was a cash flow problem. (And, that early, the system wasn't iniquitous since the truck could still be on-bartered.)

The success of railways did NOT depend on solid property laws, but rather the reverse. It was the railway builders who were attempting trespass, and it was unusual to find sufficient available property for the use of private lines through conventional means. Instead, the usual parliamentary jobbery procured special Acts of Parliament for the benefit of the railways, over the wishes of the landowners unless they were very well connected politically (like Oxford University, which is why the railway to the west bypassed Oxford in favour of Abingdon). Even before this overriding of property rights, surveys were made by trespassing; the elder Stephenson was notorious for trespassing to do this.


The comparative success of Pennsylavania and Philadelphia in the 18th century was because the local Quakers were rogues and swindlers. They took too much land for Philadelphia by violating Indian customs for measuring. They ripped off William Penn over his retained rights, so gaining a windfall capital boost. And they routinely operated as receivers of pirate booty, most importantly in regard to pirate operations around Madagascar.


P.M L.

Nefarious Quakers? Goody! The kids are gonna love this. Any sources?

P.M. Lawrence

It's not saying much but the Quakers of Pennsylvania dealt with Native Americans far more fairly than any other group of Europeans in North or South America. This is reasonably well documented in most histories of Pennsylvania and in the active role Quakers took in opposing violence against the native population (e.g. by the Paxton Boys prior to the Whiskey Rebellion).

Brad, I believe this is related to this post from the industrial revolution as well as the mining tragedy of two days ago.

I would truly like to understand what a progessive economist such as yourself thinks will happen to Occupational and Public Safety Investigatory and Regulatory Organizations like MSHA, OSHA, the FAA, NHTSA, etc. in a world of free trade, and a world where having these safety regulations is perceived as adding costs and reducing profit compared to companies that can produce similar products in countries that do not have such safety policies in place.

All else being equal, what happens to worker and public safety? I am not asking about wages, just worker safety.

Perhaps we're putting the cart before the horse. Maybe cultural settings which, for reasons of their own, were friendly to individual initiative and innovation, and skeptical of hierarchy and coercion, were receptive to both Quakers and industry. Or, to go even further, perhaps industrialism fostered cultures friendly to individual initiative and innovation and skeptical of hierarchy and coercion, which laid the basis for how well Quaker theology was received among already industry-minded cultures.

Th Darbys obviously thought property rights and the products of labour and capital were important, even if they cut corners on rights over land. But note their relaxed view of intellectual property rights: "Edward Knight Esqr a capitol Iron Master urged my Husband to get a patent, that he might reap the benefit for years of this happy discovery: but he said he would not deprive the public of Such an Acquisition which he was Satisfyed it would be; and so it has proved, for it soon spread, and Many Furnaces both in this Neighbourhood and Several other places have been errected for this purpose."
Compare Silicon Valley in its glory days. If you want Many Furnaces, don't listen to the IP engrossers.

Too right, it's not saying much that Pennsylvania Quakers preferred to cheat the natives than to use violence. They did the same sort of trick as the founders of Carthage did to get more land than the sellers thought they were agreeing to; they bought as much land as they could go round (understood by the Indians to mean walking) while smoking a pipe. Instead they ran (I suspect in relays). Source: the materials Robert Graves used in his Sergeant Lamb historical novels.

As for ripping William Penn off, a while back it was described at Lew Rockwell's site, maybe accessing the mises material, presenting it as an example of righteously not paying an absentee landowner but setting up independently for themselves (leaving out the fact that Georgists often leave oot, the role of the landlords in the tenants being there in the first place).

The pirate related activity is fairly well attested, and shows up in, e.g., how rice first reached the colonies - it was the Madagascar strain, landed at Philadelphia. You may have to search further for this. It is known that many of the pirate enclaves on Madagascar had people of colonist stock, so the only question is where they came from and who they dealt with.

On top of all that, I have heard that Philadelphia ordered a bell or some such from the UK and never paid for it, and that it is there to this day. You can check out its provenance - I believe it's still there.

A lot of liberty amounts to taking liberties.

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